The Epitome Of Perfection In Teenage Naivety.

Monday, October 10, 2005

Hear Say

"Hello Mrs Gluck? Hi my name is Mrs Stern. Do you have a son called Moshe? Well I advise you to be very careful with him. What do you mean? Well you know how he goes to the Snooker Club down In Seven Sisters? Yeah well you know he hangs out with Girls there. And you know what else. Recently he has been seen in alleyways with Girls. So Mrs Gluck, if you don’t want your son to have a Mamzer very soon. I advise you not to let him out the house after 10.00 or at least check out some of his friends."

No; this is not a little story that I just made up. This story actually happened. And you know when? A few days before Rosh Hashonah. I bet this Mrs Stern thinks she is a real do-gooder. Is it not bad enough for a mother to know that her son does not have the best name because he didn’t stay in Yeshivah until he got married? Is it not bad enough for that mother that she is having a hard time with her son with Shidduchim because he hasn’t got the Best name? Instead she gets some so called “do-gooder” calling her up and telling her complete Junk about her son. (Believe me what they are saying about him isn’t true, I know this guy.)

Or how about this? A friend of mine was asking Shidduch information about a girl to one her closest friends who is now happily married. Do you know what this girl said about her friend? Yeah she now dresses like she is more up for it. It seems like now she will go out with a guy. It is a known fact that this girl was one of the top-graduating girls from her Sem class. Maybe the problem was that she started wearing her hair loose because she thought she looked better. Or maybe she started (gasp, shock) wearing a bit of lipstick?

In a community as close knit as ours, most of us will be able to very closely observe what is going on in our neighbours living room. We might not pretend to see what going on, but how many times have you seen a juicy piece of gossip, like the fact that your neighbour has a DVD player or something stupid like that, because when you went upstairs to fetch your washing as she was doing you a favour because your washing machine broke, you saw it. And have you not hesitated to think that by you telling your sister it’s an intrusion on her privacy?

And even if you don’t understand that its an intrusion on her privacy, then maybe its an intrusion on her name. Maybe the following week she will apply to get her son into a school and by not having Yicus or money, all she has is her good name, and now you have destroyed that small ally she had on her side?

I don’t feel that I am the one to give Mussar ever; I don’t even think I have the right to say anything in concern to high holidays that have been and are to come. But instead of being so brainwashed by the Rebetzeen about your Tznius or the fact that you should try and go to the Mikvah every morning. Maybe we should all try to work on our Sinus Chnium and Bein Odem Lechavarah. I understand that sometimes a person may not have the best name because he/she once did something very stupid that they surely regret now. But do you think it’s your place or business to actually let the world and its cleaner know about it. Or maybe think about it, and imagine if it would be your daughter or son they would be calling about? How would it make you feel, especially when you have not even checked your facts? Especially when its complete and utter nonsense?

Maybe all the So-called do-gooders should stop and think and say
“Are you really your brothers keeper?”

37 Comments:

  • Poignant examples. But it seems there are two conflicting issues here - Loshon Hora, nosiness, and destructive interference on the one hand, and Kol Yisroel Areivim, and Dan L'Kaf Zechus on the other. If a child was truly engaging in dangerous behavior, I think it would be beneficial for the parents to be made aware.

    You can't simply write off everything as "informing." But there is a limit where alertness becomes snooping. Halacha defines those limits, and sometimes people cross the lines. The question that we need to ask in these situations is "Is there a constructive outcome?" If I'm just tattling on a neighbor, exposing their embarassment, I should be ashamed. But if I've witnessed questionable behavior, taken into account possible explanations, and passed that information tactfully onto concerned and affected parties, I think I've made a positive difference in the world.

    We shouldn't be too quick to judge others. But we also shouldn't be too quick to judge others that judge.

    By Blogger Josh, at 1:56 PM  

  • i agree with your post

    By Blogger Y.Y., at 7:20 PM  

  • Well said!

    The worst thing is that these "yachnes" do it on G-d's behalf.

    By Blogger Frummer?????, at 1:27 AM  

  • As Josh said.. do ot be so quick to judge..

    what you keep blogging about in our community is a worldwide phenonemum that happens in ANY close knit community.. I have a freind who is an orthodox Muslim and he complains about the same thing in their community.

    This will happen and will always happen. Take the bad with the good, the chessed and the gemachs that go on (http://chessedlondon.blogspot.com)

    But if you keep on bloggin ONLY about the bad.. what kind of black picture are you painting for people to gossip about and spread Loshon Hora? Do you not think that you could be Ovur Lifnei Ivver Lo Sittein Micshal??

    By Blogger The Shomer, at 2:21 AM  

  • Oh, please...

    So no it's not that it's wrong for heimisher bucherim to fry out...it's a crime to tell their parents!

    Wake up! If it was your or my child we'd want to know. SO WE COULD HELP THEM IMPROVE.

    Yes, it was on Hashem's behalf the lady made that phone call, even if she was wrong it was meant for the best and was correct.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:38 AM  

  • Shomer-where do u come in now? There have been many posts showing both sides of the community. Just bc you see some negative ones now doesnt mean there have never been any positive ones.
    Hey and what are we here for if not to show both sides of the coin?

    By Anonymous Anon, at 4:09 AM  

  • Shomer-where do u come in now? There have been many posts showing both sides of the community. Just bc you see some negative ones now doesnt mean there have never been any positive ones.
    Hey and what are we here for if not to show both sides of the coin?

    By Anonymous Anon, at 4:11 AM  

  • Thanks for your compliment on “Frummers” Blog, (however if you noticed I only agreed with your point about the flirting and not with all the other stuff you claim goes on). In this blog you raised a very important point, but like someone mentioned already what are your thoughts about yourself constantly tarnishing the name of our community to people across the globe? Regardless if your claims are true or not.

    Plus upon reading your earlier blogs I came to realize that you are not a exactly an innocent sheep, you write about hanging out with Chasidic boys amongst other things, I am not judging you as a individual but excuse me you are not in the position to complain.

    By Blogger Joe, at 4:28 AM  

  • The Shomer:

    (as posted on The Shaigetz)

    Of course there is good in our society, a Yid will always (almost) have compassion for another Yid in an unfortunate situation and many run their own little mini gemachim for all sorts of things.

    Thankfully that is not a problem which needs addressing, else you would have found myself and other bloggers writing about it too. As you correctly say we tend to focus on the bad. The reason is because those are the things which need addressing, and in our society, important issues are not addressed in an open forum, and often not at all. That other societies share the same problem does not mean it doesn't need solving.

    In the past the Rav had ultimate authority and would deal with matters head on. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case, and it is unaccountable persons, often without daas Torah who are running the show, and running roughshod over people.

    Our Rav has time to sign edicts banning orange ribbons and men walking on the same side of the road as women on Rosh Hashana, yet when it comes to getting kids into school, there’s no lead left in his pencil, and he can write or do nothing.

    Many of our “community representatives” belong to the “everything is OK” crowd and are of the old fashioned SH mentality. Alex Strom is the only voice of reason in the mainstream media, yet his newspaper is accused of becoming another JC by many “Stamford Hillles”. It’s time the little people had a voice too. We have valid points which have to be listened to.

    I make myself heard on my blog and, I make this statement at the risk of sounding arrogant though that is not my intention, people are starting to listen.

    By Blogger Frummer?????, at 4:34 AM  

  • Shomer (well meaning):

    Have you asked the Rav if you may use his photograph on your profile?

    Hmmmmmmmmm, I wonder which grand Rabbi's photo I should use on mine?

    By Blogger Frummer?????, at 4:37 AM  

  • Josh

    Of couse the parents should know, after all a parents job is to look after and be Mechanich their child. But they should check the facts first before they talk.

    The Shomer.

    I have written about the good of our community. please see the comment left on your Blog. Nice work by the way.

    Anon
    This lady did not make the phonecall Leshaim Shomaim. If she did She would have never mentioned a word about things like Mamzerim. Imagin someone telling you that about your son? And how much worse is it when its not true? There are nice ways to put things. Belive me.

    Joe.

    What exactly does Me having done things that does not classify me as a typical S. Hiller, make me inadequate to write about whats going on?? I bring these things to light in a hope that The RIGHT people will read it. In a Hope that something will be done. Why do we all Blog? Our community is Tainted. And contrary to any miss indication it is not by us Bloggers. And if you haven't Realized it yet then when will you? Do i ever write the accusations and then just leave it. If that would be the case i would not have written the last 3 Paragraphs of the post.

    By Blogger TheGirl, at 9:58 AM  

  • Now that Alex has addressed to the community at large.. perhaps a flood of letters to the JT.. and a FLOOD would be appreciated (obviously in support of Mr Strom)

    By Blogger The Shomer, at 12:04 PM  

  • Girl : You couldnt be more right about the screwed up priorities the "Tzaddikim" have. I see it firsthand all the time.

    In Lakewood, a lot of girls look their nose at me for wearing denim skirts, slits, and other frummy nonsense. Meanwhile, they tend to be a very mean, vicious, catty group.

    I went to Monsey, over Yom Tov, where there is a large majority that dress that way, and are more modern in general. Yet, many of them are so sweet, and sincere. I was amazed how they went out of their way to befriend me. It seems that they were more interested in doing Hesed then worrying about the opaqueness of their stockings.
    "

    By Blogger Semgirl, at 6:35 PM  

  • Semgirl-there is a difference between wearing a denim skirt or wearing a slit...

    By Anonymous Anon, at 2:23 AM  

  • What I intended to say and perhaps did not bring it out clearly, was that your picture of S H is painted by what happens to you and your friends take for instance that you feel that the number of men flirting has risen given the fact that guys are flirting with your friends, after reading your escapades, i.e. I cant really blame Yankel for trying his luck after hearing from Moshe that he has hanged out with you.

    Basically in every community there are the fringes where things are always more exciting, “so although I agree with you that not all is right here in town”, when the info comes from someone like you one has to take it in perspective.

    By Blogger Joe, at 4:11 AM  

  • Joe-as a girl from SH who doesnt hang out with guys and doesnt have anything to do with them I can say that flirting has increased dramatically recently. Guys think that if a girl looks a bit more chilled she's up for goin out and more. I just think that fine if girls are going out with guys - they have to expect to be flirted with but if they are innoncent of being involved with guys why should they have to put up with regular flirting just because they dont like dressing etc exactly like a typical sh kid does?

    By Anonymous Anon, at 5:49 AM  

  • I totally agree with you, read my comment on Frummers.

    By Blogger Joe, at 6:33 AM  

  • Joe- so then I dont understand your previous comment above?!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:56 AM  

  • Joe- So then I dont understand your comment above??

    By Anonymous Anon, at 6:57 AM  

  • Joe.

    Would you do me the honor of e mailing me? It would be much appreciated.

    By Blogger TheGirl, at 7:00 AM  

  • I had a point anon, but its not relevant anymore, by the way why don’t you just stare back or ask can I help you or something?

    By Blogger Joe, at 7:36 AM  

  • I was referring to when men check you out e.g.

    By Blogger Joe, at 7:38 AM  

  • Hey I do and the guys used to look away but they dont anymore.
    SH has changed and theres no denying it.

    By Anonymous Anon, at 8:30 AM  

  • "Hey I do and the guys used to look away but they dont anymore.
    SH has changed and theres no denying it."

    I live in BP and I second that sentiment.
    SH hasn't changed.
    The whole frum world has.

    By Blogger Hoezentragerin, at 2:06 PM  

  • Hey, you have a great blog here! I'm definitely going to bookmark you!

    I have a Health blog. It pretty much covers Dieting Health Fitness Exercise related stuff.

    Come and check it out if you get time

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:21 PM  

  • I don't know if men have become more forward in casual encounters or not. But I don't think the girl's evidence, that her experiences have changed, is good evidence. She and her friends are a little older! The year or two makes a huge difference in how men are likely to behave!

    By Anonymous justme, at 12:30 AM  

  • Regards from sunny Stamford Hill.
    So men stare. Get used to it.
    WHen you go out on the street you're putting yourself on display, and in a free country you can't really control what other people will do. It may be bloody rude but that's life.
    It's your choice whether or not to dress in a way that attracts attention, it's their choice whether or not to look. Or' you could walk around with a paper bag over your head..
    I've been hearing for years from women who dress *slightly* less than modestly "why should I have to worry about tznius? I'll dress however I want and if men have a problem let them not look"
    What I always wanted to answer (and never had the guts, s'past nisht far a chasidishe yingerman) is, so, I'll stare as much as I want and if you have a problem dress differently. It's two sides of the same coin and they're both wrong. At least here I can vent in relative anonymity. (I hope I didn't come off too agressive, but this is a pet peeve of mine).
    I don't go to snooker clubs or flirt with cheap girls, jewish or otherwise because I'm not a bloody wog (spic or nigger back in BP)
    and decent goyim don't either.
    But if some one wants to parade down the street in a way which definitely catches the eye, why do you expect us to be malochim and not look?

    By Blogger Yankel Doodle, at 11:37 AM  

  • Yankel doodle i must admit i winced at your terminology....i must confess i think the hill is years behind.......people just don't use words like wogs and nigger anymore, what planet are you from??

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:10 PM  

  • Then I'm sure they have new words instead. Care to update me?
    I believe I'm from Planet Earth. And yourself?

    By Blogger Yankel Doodle, at 3:32 AM  

  • First off, Girlie Im sad cuz im missing you!!! Israels cool but its even cooler when youre here :o)

    2) it isnt just SH thats changed, its the whole word. Times have changed. words like contraception and abortion used to be whispered, all decent women would wear hats in public, lustful stares used to be furtive glances. Torah is timeless and we expect yidden to keep up with the mesorah, so when they dont it is shocking.

    3) And yankee doodle, i believe that every girl should be aware of the message her clothes are sending out. A girl who swappes her skirt for a pelmet and whos boots come up to her thighs shouldnt wonder why people ask her if shes looking for work.
    Women who are happy with the message their clothes are sending out should be happy with the reactions they invite - beause men are genetically programmed to notice.

    By Blogger fluffykneidle, at 2:22 PM  

  • fluffy
    so we agree, then

    By Blogger Yankel Doodle, at 9:19 AM  

  • yup

    By Blogger fluffykneidle, at 1:59 AM  

  • By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:24 PM  

  • what a bunch of crap!!!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:16 AM  

  • I feel a bit bad for mrs. Gluck and her son, maybe you should not have mentioned the names, and by the way i hang out in the snooker club in seven sisters, and theirs no girls down there, but maybe thats a new thing.

    By Blogger Dave, at 5:23 PM  

  • By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:21 PM  

  • Keep up the good work video editing schools

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:43 PM  

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